Nathan Hodgson is the founder of Fusion, a digital marketing agency in the UK. He is also a host for the podcast "The Business Lounge".
Nathan brings alot of value to our listeners in his discussions on social media, crypto, and more. Today's episode is nothing but actionable advice meant to get you going.
Grab your drink and get ready. This is the caffeinated hustle. The best place to learn about entrepreneurs and FTS and life expert advice and guest interviews to launch your business and NFT journey further than you ever imagined. Now, here's your host, entrepreneur, coffee fanatic and founder of the NFT project, caffeinated creatures, Ben Carson. Welcome back to the caffeinated hustle. I'm your host, Ben Carson. thanks for stopping by. Alright team today, I've got a great guest with you. That's going to give you some really unique insights on social media. Aiden Hodgson is the owner of a digital marketing agency called Fusion. He's also a host of a podcast called the business lounge. And as a heavy investor and advocate of crypto this guy is the real deal. And you should just be excited to be along for this journey today. Nathan, welcome the show. Guys. You have this. Yeah, that's a great intro. By the way. I really enjoyed that. Absolutely, buddy. Absolutely. Well, we're just gonna dive right in today, because I've got a lot of listeners that own their own business online. And I think this is gonna be all those value pack, ones that are gonna be taking notes probably listened a couple times. But let's just start out telling us a little about your background, where you were from, what kind of got you into this whole social media thing and what you're doing now? Okay, yeah, cool. So my background basically, is social media. It's all I've kind of ever done. Obviously, I'm relatively young. So I'm 23. And basically, I sort of went University, did business management in my undergrad, and then went on to do digital marketing for my master's degree. And whilst we're, whilst I was sort of at university, the majority of the time that I spent at university, the rest of it, you know, when I wasn't studying or whatever, I would literally just spend my time learning about social media became obsessed with, you know, learning everything I can about social media, my background, previous to university was heavily in computer science, that was what I thought I wanted to do initially. So over in the UK, we often called a levels. So during Maria levels, I studied computer science, I also studied what we call ICT, and also business as well. So I've always had a quite big interest in business and computers and things like that. And, you know, as I sort of grew older, I realized how important social media is for sort of businesses, and also how a lot of people struggle with it, and are still struggling to adapt to this sort of new world that we live in. And in that there is obviously opportunity, as well. And ultimately, I just enjoy helping people. So that's one of the reasons why I sort of had an interest in social media, I found it fascinating in the fact that it sort of opens up so many doors for everybody, I mean, were able to do this now, because you've been able to find me through a social platform, and without that we would never have met. So things like that are super invested in, you know, open up a lot of sort of doors that maybe weren't there previously. As for my agency, my agency has started just before, just before the pandemic, but we sort of officially launched in the pandemic, when the pandemics happened a scene there was a lot of sort of small businesses who either didn't have a social presence, or they had a social presence, but it wasn't very good. And in that, I thought that there was an opportunity to help these businesses out and supply them with a variety of different services, anything from graphic design, videography, photography, obviously, social media management, and we're just about to launch our paid ads service as well. And these were all things which I thought were vital for any business online to succeed and obviously increase their overall growth and exposure to you know, their target demographic and customers. Well, that's, that's awesome. You're really like a one stop shop, then like, I'm assuming the age of the type of business, you're finding like the owner, I'm assuming that demographic is probably over 30. Like, like, because if they have no social media, if they have no graphic design, they're kind of just running their business, and they just don't want to get left behind. Is that what you have? Or are there actually a lot more younger people that just don't want to mess with social media still. So it's a variety, to be fair, initially, the target audience, which our thought we would be targeting would be the likes of over 30s, who can't or don't know how to, obviously implement these types of services in the, you know, taken in house. But over time, I realize that a lot of people either don't have the time or just don't have the desire to learn. Certainly, when it comes to, I think, over the last few years, the standard of a lot of social platforms has increased significantly. So certainly, if you look at like YouTube, for example, back in the day, anybody could basically produce content for YouTube and it would perhaps do well but now the standard of productions increased so dramatically that not your average person can maybe compete as good as could have in the past. And what I found with a lot of agencies was is that they were charging extortionate rates for what they were offering. Do you see that? Yeah, they're just charging a fee, which I just thought, you know, I could do that to that standard. And I didn't need to charge that kind of a fee. And I thought that, you know, why should there be businesses out there who aren't able to access this standard of, you know, production, because of a budget issue. And that sort of thing that you were, you know, sort of really started to take off with the business, because that was the kind of people that we were able to attract. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, I'm 30, I'm 3534 35, I don't know, it's, whatever, I'm one of those two years, I can't remember right now off the top my head, I need more sleep. But you know, I need more caffeine, that's what I need. But even though I have a lot of experience in this space, there's so many things like, if you're not constantly in it, you just get left behind, because you're trying to run your business and social media used to just be a little whatever. But now it's crucial, because everything you just said that makes so much sense that regardless of the age, I think there's definitely some value here. So let's talk about the type of content you're making. You're saying you're making the standard? And so is that standard based off just other agencies off creators? Where do you measure your content to make sure you're doing it better than what they could do themselves? Yeah, so obviously, that comes down to a lot of different things that comes down to some business owners, one don't have maybe the creativity or their mind just doesn't function that way, a bit like how this is an angelic uses. Some people are really good at maths, some people are really good at English. And you know, the people that are typically good at maths hate English, and the people who are good at English hate laughs. And, you know, when it comes to content creation, I think that you either love doing it, and you can put everything that you know you have into it, or you just hate it. And I think that specifically, when it comes to, you know, people who are starting out with businesses, you've got to be putting all of your time and effort into the few things that you're good at, rather than being good at everything. And if you know, if you're perhaps making a new product, and you're trying to sell it to people, you've got to spend the most amount of time in that product, the best product, you can make it. And if you've got to worry about, you know, hey, I need to be posting five meals a day, I need to be posting, you know, an Instagram story. And if you put us in this and having to think about your marketing continuously, then your products not going to be as good because you've got to think about all these other factors. So what we do is we take away the need to essentially think about that element of their business so that they can focus on the things which truly matter to their business in terms of success. I like that. Yeah, that's, that's exactly where you need to be as a business owner, because you are pulled 14 different ways every single day. So taking a little bit of that stress off your plate. Sounds phenomenal. So let's pivot a little bit. And let's talk to other social media agencies out there, like these ones that are just up and coming a little bit. What did you do to get your first client? I've heard a lot of people say, do free work until you justify it? Or did you just do a lot of cold calling? How did you get started in the space? Okay, so I was quite fortunate, because I've always kind of been quite aware of things that I need to be doing. From, you know, an early age 18, I've always known that networking has been important. And it's quite a funny reason why, but when I was 18, you know, 1920, I knew that. If I networked with more people, then I was able to, you know, get different benefits. So for example, in my past experience in my jobs, I've worked a lot in nightlife. So what my experience was winning nightclub events and marketing for those. So I knew that if I networked with people from different venues, different club owners, then you know, if I got friendly with them, then I wasn't perhaps paying into that club, or I wasn't paying, you know, for that, that them drinks or whatever. So I knew over time that the more people you know, then the more beneficial it is, although I didn't maybe necessarily know that that's what I was doing. I just knew that sort of the more hands are shook, the better it was, for me in terms of just no more, there was a better idea. And that kind of made it easier for when I started my business because I already had all these contacts. So for anybody who's sort of starting out, one of the things that I would say is that your network is literally everything. I'm at a point now where that's all I'm obsessed about is just the more people I can meet the better because the more people you meet, the more opportunity there is. And when I sort of you know, my first client was actually somebody that are already you know, a new relatively well, and that was you know, it was for probably a red which was under undervalued, I guess but I just needed to get my so foot in the door I guess. Especially when it was something that, although I'd done marketing before, I didn't have any experience in graphic design necessarily, or any experience in video editing. I didn't have any experience with, you know, actual videography. These were all things which are taught myself to specifically for the majority of it over the lockdowns. And when that went out, obviously, I was teaching myself I was sort of I enough, you know, I could, I could potentially get them for work. And, and that's how I knew that I was like, right, okay, I think I can, you know, make this work because of my network. And I think I can convert a specific number of people into into clients. And, you know, there was a couple of people where I was like, right, I know that they've got really good networks, or they've got good exposure within the local community. So I would be like, right, I'm gonna message them. And I'll do them either for free, or I would do it for a reduced rate, I'd be like, Oh, well, you know, I'll do it for this much money. And at the time, I was just happy to be doing the work, regardless of how much money I got. And I remember when I made my first sort of real income from this now, I felt this I was like cheating the system like I was, and, you know, I've talked about this quite often on my podcast, this idea of like imposter syndrome, I felt like, you know, I'm charging money for this. And all I've done is sit there in my bedroom and learn this myself. Like, I'm a fraud. That's how I felt at the time. But obviously, you know, I was good at it. Because I'd spent so many, especially in the lockdowns, and we had nothing to do, I was doing the six hour days where I was just learning learning learned YouTube video, after YouTube video trying to perfect my skill, so that I could obviously charge a rate. But yeah, that's sort of how I got my first couple of clients. And then over time, you know, went in to meet more people. And I got recommendations through word of mouth, my social channels grew. And another way I did get my clients was through my podcast, you know, my podcasters that help people with investing and things like that. But it's also there as a tool to it's a content marketing strategy, essentially, because, you know, we're producing free content, giving people advice, and stuff like that. And the target demographic of the people who are watching are people who are business owners, or, you know, people who are going to need those types of services. And that's how I attracted a lot more clients over time. Yeah, no, I love that. I mean, a podcast is a really good example of trying to solve people's pain points. And so you're just giving away the information for free. And, you know, some people will just take and run and some people will say, I don't want to mess with this. I'm just gonna hire this guy, since he's already teaching me. I mean, that's, that's a great way to do it, Nathan. So I do like that you opened up the door, a little bit about imposter syndrome, because that was actually my next question was gonna talk to you about when you're starting out, and this is, let's try and give this blanket advice. Because this can almost go to any business. But in your social media space, you had the knowledge you had, you know, education, but you hadn't been live yet. When you're doing your first few clients? Are they asking you any questions that you felt like you were just feeling truly like an impostor? How did you deal with the fact that you were not really experienced yet? And yet, you're still trying to charge like, you're you're competing with the biggest people in the space on day one? Pretty much. And how did you handle that and get through that? It was difficult because because of past wills, which had hard there was people who I knew who offered specific services, which I now offer, whether it was photography, videography, graphic design, they're all people that I've had to deal with in different roles, especially sort of where I'm from, it's very locally based. And you know, so you kind of feel that you're stepping on people's toes, and, gosh, I shouldn't really be in this position. You feel as though you're, you know, you're at the end of a diving board, and you shouldn't really be there. That's all the only way I can describe it and your jump or not. Yeah, basically, and the only thing you've got to do is jump because otherwise, you'll just regret the fact that you'd never did. Yeah, and the imposter syndrome never goes away. I still get it today. And you know, we've worked with multiple, multiple clients. And I still always feel as though I shouldn't be, you know, charging this much, even though or whatever, even though it's worth what it is because of the time and the effort and the energy that went into making the company and the brand what it is today. And it is difficult in the beginning, but you have to do it. And I don't know about you, but I'm the kind of person where if something scares is and isn't life threatening, then I'm like, yes. Okay, let's do it. Because that's when you're gonna grow. And if you don't constantly keep yourself in a state of imposter, then you're not going to grow as a person. And that's where for me that really scares is the biggest fear I have is being comfortable. Man. I love that you said that we are very similar in that regard. Starting this podcast, meeting all these other successful entrepreneurs, like I was very happy to be in my own little world and like you just stopped growing when you're just doing that even if you're succeeding, what you're doing, you're not growing the way you should be. And I 1,000% agree. with what you said, the imposter syndrome is always there, I feel it's gotten a little easier, but it never goes away. And you know, I've heard someone say that the feelings of outright fear and excitement are almost the same internally. And so when you get like that, you just say, I'm excited, and we just just power through. And that's just like you said, you grow in your uncomfort zone, not in your comfort zone when you're happy chillin on Netflix. And I mean, you could have played fortnight you could have watched Netflix, you could have done a whole bunch of stuff during lockdown, not improved yourself, and where would you be at now? I mean, you have to get uncomfortable to grow. So very well said. So I want to start pivoting a little bit. But let me ask you one more thing you do kind of a full service thing. Looking back on it? Do you feel like that's the right call? Do you feel like someone's starting out now? Should you specialize more starting out and then grow after you've established yourself or just go for everything at once? What's your take? It depends. So I'm quite fortunate in the fact that I enjoy every element of you know what, what I offer. So I enjoy the graphic design as much as I enjoy video editing. Whereas somebody else might thoroughly enjoy the graphic design, but absolutely hate the video editing. And, you know, over time, you'll realize which ones you perhaps enjoy more. And if you're in the beginning, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to do them. Or if you're just doing purely graphic design, and you're doing specifically for certain types of businesses, then that's, that's not a bad thing at all, it's not a bad thing. It can perhaps maybe be an advantage. But I was in a position where I enjoyed every element of it. And I thought, if a business is coming to me for graphic design, they're probably going to need video as well. So I thought, it's the best way to sort of be the, like you say, a one stop shop where people can come and they can get all the different types of services, which they may perhaps need for the business. I always seen it as sort of, you know why, if I've got a client, and they're coming to me for specifically video, why should I you know, not offer a full social media management, because if they're going to need it, I'd rather them come to me then company for some things and go elsewhere for other things, if it's something I'm comfortable offering and feels or have necessarily skills and resources to be the offer that. And I think, you know, I have noticed as I've sort of got, you know, got further on with the business and there's more, there's certain things I enjoy a little bit more than others. So you know, there might be certain pieces of work that come in which I then pass off outsource, and then there's other pieces of work, I want to do that that's the piece I want to take on. And that's okay to do as well. I don't think there's any issue with that. It just how it happens is the is the sort of business grows and you get yourself in a position whereby everything that's coming in work wise is something that you're going to enjoy. And that's the main thing that you're enjoying it because as soon as you're not enjoying it, then you're not going to be very successful. I don't think, ya know, very well said. So, your current company is just you correct? Yeah. So it's, it's just me, but I have sort of selection of people I work with regularly, who I outsource work to if you know, there's a backlog of work or there's an overload of work, or this is just a specific sort of project, which I don't perhaps want to take on or our feeders or somebody who is within my circle might be better at that's the way I like to work. Yeah, no, no, that's, that's, that's, there's a zero thing. Nothing wrong with that at all. Are you at a point now where you're still taking on more work? Or do you have enough customers that you could basically just skate on what you have. And if you decide you want to go travel for a few months, with some friends, you could just continue doing the work, you have no new work and be just fine, or you always have an expand because is there some sort of burn rate in this space where people just decide it's not working for them, or if you're having success, they just keep building and it's not really like a gym membership where you're, you know, a gym owner is gonna expect to lose X number of clients every single month, just because that's how it works. Well, I certainly think there's a burn out rate personally, and I experienced that during my journey, there was a point in time where we went through exponential growth and I got to a point where I was just working, you know, 1314 hour days, seven days a week. And it was just you know, at the time I was like, This is great, everything's going really well. And you know, my my sort of close circle of friends we're going to you need to have some downtime because you just take them on too much. Yeah, obviously I started to miss like social events and stuff like that which you know, naturally comes with having a business anyways. But when it's just work 24/7 And you get up and that's all you do. It can become where it doesn't matter how much you love it. If your health deteriorate and it's not good. I was getting where I wasn't having enough sleep and my body was just fatigued and just needed a break. So at that point, I went right I'm going to have to outsource some of this I'm going to have to hire somebody and I went down that outsourcing route because I thought that, you know, especially in the kind of world we live in now, where anybody can work from anywhere, you can, you know, do business with people who are overseas, remotely, have meetings remotely, all that I just thought that that was the best option for me. And I'm not entitled any contracts, I don't have to be like in a position whereby, you know, for quite a one month I don't have to be late are well, you know, I'm gonna have to lay somebody off or anything like that. I'm just don't have the work for whoever I was maybe a freelance, several or whatever. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. So let's give a little advice, then to business owners, feeling like it's time to bring somebody on. So let's go at this from an angle that you're not going to be working with them. So this is just blanket advice. And this is more advice for the startup process. Basically, if you want to reach out to an agency, what type of information should a business owner ask to see results? Because you can throw out a lot of numbers and impressions and things like if you don't understand it, it just looks like you're killing it, like every agency can look like they're killing it when a lot of them are probably not. So what should an owner look for, in hiring an agency to make sure they're finding a winner? Certainly past results, clients that have worked with, you know, other clients that have worked with large companies, small companies, what is their sort of client views being like, if you can work out how long clients have been with the agency, that also helps as well, any sort of past results, which have been, obviously, like, you see, I mean, some agencies can maybe make it sound doing amazing compared to the reality. But it is always important to look at what results agencies have brought about. And it depends on what service you're also looking to get. Because if you're looking to get something like a graphic design service, or a video editing service, you can look at the work, look at their past portfolio of things that we've created, and you can make a judgement, you know, you can't really, it's kind of a black and white result. It's like, do you like the kind of work they produce or not? Whereas with social media management, it's more analytical. So is it? You know, what, how many followers if they've been able to increase certain pages by if it's paid ads, you know, what kind of results have they been able to get from ad campaigns? So it just depends on what kind of service it is that this person directly is looking to, to bring in? And, you know, help them with? Okay, yeah, well, I think I want to kind of move on to crypto, but I want to give you one last little ability to give out some nuggets. So let's say someone feels like they're still not there, where they can't hire an agency, yet. They're running their business, they're getting pulled, but they just don't have the fun. So they just have to grind this out a little longer. What's one piece of advice you can give them to help improve their their social results based off doing it themselves instead of going to the agency? Okay, certainly research, find out what's working at this current moment in time. So have a look at your niche, for example. So if you're somebody that's in I don't know, if, for example, for example, your restaurant, what are the restaurants doing? You know, are they posting competitions, or they're posting, you know, just normal photos of food, what kind of engagement or the supply in One really good example is certainly at the moment, the best way to grow your social platform at this point in time of recording, is to do it organically through Tiktok and Instagram reels, I would spend all of my time and energy on purely those alone. I mean, certainly for like our podcast, we literally just do reels and tiktoks we don't do anything else, that is our strategy. Just because Instagram reels and tick tock isn't oversaturated at this point in time. Now, there's a lot of people consuming the content, but there isn't a lot of people creating the content. So if you look at normal Instagram, everybody's posting photos, the same way that everybody's posting on Facebook. So it's like a traffic jam, there's too much traffic compared to you know, the amount of the amount of eyeballs I guess, so your level of reach isn't very, very much. Whereas on reels and tiktoks There is a large amount of eyeballs but not a lot of people posting so naturally your content is gonna get shorter and more people the same with LinkedIn as well LinkedIn is exactly the same. So I would focus all my time and energy on doors, do some research in your niche and see what other people are doing. And the greatest thing about sort of like Tiktok and instagram videos is you can literally go on search through trends quite easily see what videos are already performing well on you know other people in your niche and you know, you can take make your own spin on it and sort of make it your own and benefit from the organic reach but like I say it's it's difficult because you know, the algorithms are always changing but this window of organic reach on wheels and tiktoks won't last forever so I highly recommend taking advantage of that. That's very accurate very well said I'm actually I haven't done anything with this podcast yet. And I just hired someone today to start making those those videos for Tik Tok because you're absolutely right the just the left Love reaching and get without paying a dime on ads is blowing my mind. I've had so many guests on here that are making anywhere from 30 to 60,000 a month selling their own course or their own training and they're only using Tiktok. Like how are you doing this? It's just it's tick tock tick tock is just it's a game changer for for social media. I wanted to move on. But I'm going to ask you one more thing, because you just go ahead, you just sent me up there. If a business owner is ready to hire an agency, they found a couple winners, if the winners if they're similar enough where they can have either option, you know, the pricing has got to be so subjective. What can you do? Is there a website someone can go to that can kind of show an industry average? Or how do you tell if one is charging 1000 ones charging 2000? Is it just what they feel like how much work they need is there any sort of baseline you can establish for pricing or is entirely up to just the company itself. So it does depend, it depends on the business themselves, the kind of desired results that they would like to try and achieve, obviously, the service as well. But that being said, there is nothing stopping a business owner go into multiple agencies and getting a quote and then comparing them. Now, I would always say that typically, obviously, the more you sort of spend the naturally the better results you'll probably get, especially when it comes to like paid ads, social media management, because there's going to be more time spent on it. But that's not to say that you can't get good results from a low sort of budget. You know, we work with clients who spend a low amount of money who get the desired results that they want to have. And we have clients who spend a large amount of money who then get the desired results that they want to have. Everybody's business goals are different. And you know, the agency, which the goal with should also reflect that, ya know, very well said I need and I appreciate all the advice you've given here, I think you're gonna help out a lot of our listeners. And thank you for that. We're gonna pivot just for a few minutes here in the crypto world because you are a big fan of it. I am as well. And the future of it looks very interesting, especially in regards to social media. So give me a little bit of your take on crypto and why you think it's going to change the world. FIU How long have we got? We can go another 10 minutes. Let's do it. Well, you know, I mean, we talk about this a lot on on our podcast, that's crypto sort of, I mean, for a bit of context I bought in, in 2016, initially, then I didn't sell Yeah, I did sell though, you know, I didn't understand the fundamentals properly. And it was just a quick way to make money. I saw it the same way as I see stocks, for example. But now my conviction in crypto is despite the market conditions, the highest it's ever been. I mean, obviously, the markets at the moment are down drastically. And you know, if you've got conviction, this is a happy time. For me personally, I'm like, Yes, that's cool. Because I'm buying more Well, it's, you know, it's on discount. But, you know, I'm a massive advocate of certainly Bitcoin and Aetherium as well. I think Bitcoin is going to transform everything, I think it'll be the digital store of value. I think your theory and I think you're through and will transform everything as well. I think obviously, with smart contracts. I think that has changed the way everything's done from for, you know, insurance contracts, to mortgages to social media, the majority of my portfolio surrounds Bitcoin and Aetherium. So for a bit of context, about 70%, Aetherium, 20%, Bitcoin and 10% have a basket of other stuff, which I think could do well, in the longer term. I'm a long term holder. I've never sold often in 2016. But when I bought back in a couple of years ago, I've since then, I've never sold through all the highs and all the lows as well. So nothing that can change my conviction. I don't think my convictions stupidly bullish, I guess. You gotta have a strong conviction. And this time, I mean, the overall market itself was down 10%. In the last five days alone, I mean, crypto takes a little faster. I mean, crypto is a very wild, wild west style verse, the overall markets, but the entire market the entire world right now is in some pain, and we'll get through it. But I'm with you. So I'd like to talk to you a little bit about social media and blockchain the future. Where do you see because right now tic toc has changed the game for everyone. Now it's all organic. It's the fact that you can reach anyone, it's no longer just your friends and family are going to like your stuff. It's that opened up doors. We haven't done anything yet. With blockchain. Where do you see the potential for social media to go because I can almost envision like a social currency almost where you can kind of tell how many people have likes and follows and different things on the blockchain to the point that like a platform can't shut you down anymore because you're on the blockchain. And it's not like Twitter owns you or Facebook owns you. It gets away from that. But that's my take, and I'd love to get your take on it. No, I like that idea. I've never thought of that idea before. I think the biggest thing for social media will be NF T's. Yeah, I think that NF T's are going to transform everything. From a social standpoint, along with social totems as well, I think the reason why NF T's are probably going to transform the way we sort of communicate online is because if I go out on the street and I'm wearing a certain brand of clothing, I'm wearing that to portray my personality, my interest is the same thing, but on a global scale. So there's a reason why people buy a Rolex watch, the reason people buy Rolex watches, it's a status thing to you know, I've got this much money to buy a Rolex watch, look at me, that's what it is whether people like it or not. And when we get to the point where I mean, obviously, Instagram sort of going to implement NF T's relatively soon. I think when we get to the point where likes of that is on the blockchain, that's when it's going to be really at rest. And so, for example, I'm well in football. So you know, I'm a season ticket holder at my local club. And when that goes on the blockchain, I want that on my Instagram account, I want everybody to know that I'm a supporter of this club, and that I've been a supporter of this club, you know, since I was whatever age and I think that it'll change the way we communicate, because it'll tell other people things which we perhaps didn't know before. So you might have a specific interest, you might be into a certain type of movie or whatever. And I don't know that without asking you that question. But if you're able to put that out there, so you might be a massive Star Wars fan, for example. And if I go on your Instagram feed, and you know, you've been recently the cinema and cinema tickets and NFT, that is, you know, you want to see the new Star Wars movie, I'm like, Oh, he likes Star Wars, there's a straightaway there's a point of interest, a point of mutual agreement, I guess that we both like that thing. And that opens up conversation, and your ability to tell more easily how interesting or relevant certain person is to you. And it's the same for employers. So how employers will look on your social channels that like you can tell more about a person because people will buy things to care about as opposed to posts and things which they want to see like a picture of you on holiday, for example, Louise tells so much, but a collection of NF Ts, it'll tell a lot more about you. I'm thinking right now my head just when you said that the eHarmony of the future is just going to be some sort of algorithm that just checks all the NF T's you have and aligns you with somebody else dating in the future post NF T world is going to be in the same yeah, there's a business right there. I'm very excited for it. Like really excited for it. I think that it's gonna it's just gonna change everything I think this next decade. And you know, I'm a massive fan of you've probably heard of Raoul Powell. Huge, huge fan of our Powell have him a thank for a lot of my knowledge. And he he's a big fan of NF T's and obviously the metaverse, and he's mindsets very similar to this. And he thinks that that's where everything's going to head to. And you know, I mean, we're basically living in the metaverse now. It's just not fully immersed. Yeah, we're a little ways out from a really nice looking metaverse. I've seen the videos right now and it just looks like creepy old technology. Like we're getting there. You know, and I really am looking forward to the future though. Like the project we're that we're building here. Caffeinated creatures is all about the fact that you have access to these connections. It's no longer just a JPEG, like everyone thought NF T's was just a picture that you could right click save and you don't need to spend the money like know the NF T's gives you access, it gets you communities that you don't have access to without, and it's some special. So, really appreciate you shed some light on that because yeah, the future's bright and NF T's are definitely down markets are down in general. But you know, if you have the time this is when you want to buy nobody should be buying at the top. That's that's the exact opposite of how you're supposed to treat investing, you're supposed to just average it and, and deal with the ebbs and flows. But Nathan, I really appreciate this. I think you've helped us out a lot listeners have gotten a ton of value from you. Where can they go to find out more about you online. So you can reach me through my podcasts page, which is just at the Business Loans underscore or server website, which is WWE Diva, the business lounge podcast, I couldn't care. You can reach me on my agency page fusion dot NCL, and if you search on the podcast page, my name Nathan Hodgson, then you'll find me and contact me also emails and stuff, phone numbers all on the website. So just better find me somewhere. Absolutely. Well, appreciate that. We'll throw those links in the show notes. And last question we asked every guest in the show is what is your favorite caffeinated beverage to get through the day? Oh, I'm quite a blonde guy. I can't lie. I quite like a vanilla. Vanilla latte. Nothing wrong with that or Caramella. Any kind of like iced coffee iced coffee lattes. I like it. Well, I appreciate your time and we'll talk again soon. Understand. I've really enjoyed being on Thank you. Thanks for listening to the caffeinated hustle. Sponsored by caffeinated labs LLC. For more information or to connect with Ben, check us out online at caffeinated labs got IO or email us at support at caffeinated labs. Ohio Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode or give us a follow on social media by checking the links in the description we'll see you next time