Let's Talk Mindfulness - Interview with Shelby-Tate Major

Grab your drink and get ready. This is the caffeinated hustle, the best place to learn about entrepreneurs and FTS and life expert advice and guest interviews to launch your business and NFT journey further than you ever imagined. Now, here's your host, entrepreneur, coffee fanatic and founder of the NFT project, caffeinated creatures, Ben Carson. All right, team. Welcome back to the caffeinated hustle. I'm your host, Ben Carson. thanks for stopping by. Today I've got a very important guests. And I'm happy for you to meet because we have not yet really talked about the mindfulness side of entrepreneurship of life of anything. So today's guest is Shelby Tate, she is going to really open your eyes a little bit. Because if you don't have the right perspective, if you don't have this sort of training and education that she's going to help unlock for you a little bit. You're going to get lost when pressure hits because everyone's going to go through pressure. So Shelby Tate is a 500 hour registered yoga teacher, who has been teaching yoga and meditation in person and online for many years. As a mental health counseling grad student, she has expanded her vision into a holistic wellness approach, covering the mind, body and spirit. Through her online courses and digital presence. She teaches people how to heal emotionally and find the sunshine within. She'll be welcome to the show. Thank you so much happy to be here. Absolutely. I mean, before we get started, I gotta tell just the listeners, if you look at your socials, you've been around to 41 countries that is mind blowing. Yes, I am. I'm very lucky I Travelling is a huge, huge passion, and like non negotiable in my life. So I love it. My wife would love to hear that. So are you done traveling for now? Or are you still traveling right now? No, yeah, not at all. I'm actually I'm currently in between homes, I'll say. So I just packed up my Boston apartment. And I'm just kind of floating around for the next few months. Luckily, I have a job that allows me to do that. So yeah, we'll see where I go. Post COVID. The world kind of changed. I mean, you're doing before, obviously, but just Yeah, it's a lot more normal these days. And that's awesome. That's where we all want to be there sometimes. So Well, I'm excited to talk to you about today. Because you know, I've got five kids, I've got a couple businesses doing a podcast, like pick your poison, I've got plenty of stress. So mindfulness is going to help me out a lot because I definitely don't practices like I should. So I just kind of want to let you just have at it. Tell the listeners a little about yourself about your, you know, just history where you got to, to get to where you're at now. And we'll kind of dive into just mindfulness yoga and everything that's just gonna help these people out. Yeah, absolutely. So I think what you said is really important, it's that without it, we get kind of lost. And that is just exactly where I was, you know, just floating last. I wasn't sure if I was really happy. I didn't really know what's going on. I was still quite young when I found all this. So I just graduated from college, I was living in Mexico, I was selling timeshare, and it was a commission only sales job. So there's a lot of opportunities to get really down on yourself and to let all of those fears and the negativity and I'm not making money, I'm in a different country, what am I doing, you know, all these things, can play a really big role on your mental health and then your performance. And so I started reading a lot sort of getting into mindfulness and meditation, I had already been a yoga practitioner and teacher for many years. But more I was I was more on the western side of yoga, I was like, it's a, it's an exercise. It's a physical practice. And in reality, there's so much more to it. And it's one of those like, it's like an onion, you keep peeling these layers, and you realize how many of these aspects really can change your life, you know, for you with, with children, it's when they see you doing these things, they learn better emotional regulation, they learn how to cope with their stress, they get these techniques instilled in them that only benefit them in the future benefit you right, your relationship with them. So mindfulness is one of those things that can integrate into every single area of your life so seamlessly that people almost don't realize it. And you know, as I've grown on it and continued like my dad is, so I have two half siblings that are a lot younger. They're three and they're seven. And my dad is so funny because he'll when he puts them to bed, he does like mindfulness. We'll do like a little headspace kids meditation with them. And he falls asleep. He's like, wow, that was better sleep than I got all night and those 20 minutes that I fell asleep, putting them to bed because it started with that mindful practice. Right, taking that moment. So wow, that's awesome. Okay. I mean, I'm all yours now. Because I would, yeah, let's just say I'm ready. So explain to the listeners. What is mindfulness? Because that's a word that it's a buzzword almost. So what does it really mean for mindfulness? So for mindfulness, what we're really talking about is a present moment awareness. So as humans, most of the day I would say probably 80% of our day, we are running on autopilot. So we're driving to work, we know exactly where to go. We're going to the grocery store and same one we always go to picking up the same things, we are just going through the motions. And when we're on autopilot, we are at the mercy of our subconscious mind. And our subconscious mind develops, really mainly develops in those first seven years of our life. So when we don't have control, and we don't have the capacity to really well, we don't have our logical brain fully developed, and we don't have the capacity for emotional processing. So everything that happens to us in those first seven years of life becomes these core beliefs that run all day long in our subconscious. And when we are not present, we are letting these things control our lives, they make all of our decisions for us. And so we're operating almost as like a five year old. Right? So what mindfulness does is it brings us back to this present moment with current brain capacity, emotional functioning, logical functioning that we have right here. And it's the connection of your body, your mind, your breath, this present moment where a lot of times for people, they can say, okay, nothing is wrong, I am safe right here in this moment, everything is okay. You know, because when you get stressed and anxious, your mind just kind of takes on this whole world of its own. And it's telling you everything that's wrong, and it's running through everything that can go wrong and will go wrong or has gone wrong. And what mindfulness is, is it's bringing you back to this moment where you're like, Okay, wait, all those things could go wrong. All these things have gone wrong, but I can't change anything in this moment. In this moment. I'm actually okay. I'm breathing. I'm alive. I'm okay. Yeah, I kind of wish I had a little mindfulness sometimes my kids because I'll just tell you right now, sometimes that fight or flight just kicks in hard. And this is very interesting to anyone listening that doesn't think they're on autopilot. Just remember, everyone's driven in a car and just wow, how do I get there? You know, your mind does this, whether you want to believe it or not, autopilot, it just happens. It's looking for the fastest connections, the easiest way to do what it has to do. So 100% believe in this, I don't know how to improve it. So you said you used to practice yoga on the western side, like the the exercise form. So what do you do now with yoga that connects this to this mindfulness. So once again, this is connecting the body, mind breath, all of it. So prior to diving more into the mindfulness side, you know, I might practice yoga and have some music playing in the background, or just kind of letting my thoughts run not really focused on what I'm doing. And when we add in that breathwork, that focus that mindfulness, what we're doing is with each breath, there is a movement, you know, you'll you'll hear in yoga classes, inhale and lift your arms and exhale, fold forward, and they connect each breath to a movement. So that what you're focusing on, that gives your brain enough to focus on basically, okay, I'm trying to sync up my breath. And this movement that I'm doing, that's now connected me into the present moment, it gives you less of a chance for your mind to wander off. And just once again, allows you to be okay, right here, lifting the arms focusing on the mechanical movement, focusing on the breath. And breath work really unlocks a lot of that present moment awareness, right, because once again, we're talking about autopilot, breathing, or breathing is always on autopilot. So that's great, right? It's something that just happens naturally. But that also means that most likely your breath is really, really shallow, right, you're probably not even breathing into your diaphragm, you hear singers and things like that they're breathing into different parts of their body. And that's a very focused breath. It's the same thing with yoga. So now we're, we're breathing into a different part of our body, we're, we're breathing into almost all of our body parts. And that allows that connection and that mindfulness to really take place. Wow, I'm sure you're aware of the calm app, it's a meditation app. I've tried it many times it, it works to a point, but my mind just seems to just when I try and close it off, I just start to wander. And it's just, it's hard. So I've never really tried the physical side of it, connecting the two. And I think that might be something that helps pretty much anyone that's struggling there. Because if you're just sitting in a chair, trying to be stiff back and just let your mind unlock, it's just, you know, you're just gonna start thinking what everything has to do, as soon as this is over, you're never gonna get the value you're supposed to out of it. Absolutely, and actually traditional yogic philosophy is that the reason why we do yoga, and this is going to be a paraphrase is almost to get the jitters out, it's to prepare your body for meditation. So when you do something like a yoga practice, or a breath work before you meditate, what you've done is you've gotten all of that out so that you can actually sit in your stillness. And another misconception that people have is that they're going to be able to sit down and clear their mind and meditate and it's going to be great. And, you know, depending on how old you are, you've had 20 3040 years of your brain, your mind a constant train of thought, there's no way that you can just shut that off. Right? It's this practice of easing that flow, noticing your thoughts, you know, that that big misconception of, I'm gonna clear my mind. I mean, the only people that can do that are amongst on a mountaintop, right? Like there are days when I sit there and I can didn't clear my mind. And I've been practicing for years. So there's I think people beat themselves up, right? Because they say, I have to clear my mind. And then once they can't, they're like, Oh, well, I did it wrong. And I give up. And it's just, it's so much more than that. Yeah, it's a journey. It's, there's no scenario, you can figure this out quickly. And that's okay. It's just the fact that you're, you're showing up again, to do it every single day. So is there like a minimum time you need to do this for to work is every one individual where there's no two people that are going to line here? How's if I have five minutes? Can I do this? Or does that not even close? And how do I get started on this? So you can actually do five minutes. And that's I kind of recommend people start with really, really small increments of time, two minutes, five minutes, but research actually shows that 12 minutes a day, you can start to rewire your brain. So you start to see those neurons kind of connecting in different areas. And I mean, first of all, anybody can anybody can work in 12 minutes into their day. But it right, right, it's it's 12 minutes of essentially when you're hitting a certain brainwave state. So when you're hitting that theta brainwave 12 minutes of that is what's repairing that brain. Most people can get 12 minutes of that solid theta brainwave state in about 2025 minutes of meditation, right, so that allows for the minutes where you kind of dip out and come back in. But I would say, if you're starting out one to five minutes, that's perfect, right? Because you're just sharpening your mind to focus on one thing, and that is the present moment, as opposed to the constant train of thought, as a business owner, there are so many fires, you have to put out as a parent, no matter what you do, you're going to have fires to put out in your life and coming back to the moment and recognizing this too shall pass is a very important thing to do. So let's talk a little bit about some variations of yoga. So I know a lot about stoicism and just the fact that just letting it be what will be let it be, is that almost like a version of yoga is yoga. Like when I think of yoga, I think of like, you know, hot yoga or like cold yet, like just in a gym, like just a big class. Like that's what I think of yoga, and clearly, I'm off. And so what is any of these other things? Are they are they versions of yoga? Are they something else entirely, and there's just varieties of yoga that you really have to look into? Because it's just, it seems a lot more all encompassing than I ever realized. Definitely. So so there are types of yoga, which would be like hot yoga is Bikram yoga. There's vinyasa yoga, there's like restorative yoga. There's, there's those different types, which is still focusing on the physical Austin practice. And then you get into things like Karma Yoga. So that is kind of exactly what you think of when you think of karma, right? That's, in and of itself a different branch. But something that there's a guy who not not started yoga, he made his imprint on yoga. Patanjali is his name. So there, he has eight limbs of yoga. And within that the asana, the physical practice is only one of these limbs. So the other ones, you've got concentration, and you've got concentration is would be another word for mindfulness. You've got meditation, you've got basically like sensory awareness. So yoga is this umbrella term for so many different things, which is why when I call it the Western yoga, it's just focusing on this one limb, this physical practice, but really is so much more it's a whole philosophy. Wow. Okay. Do you know all the limbs? Can you actually tell the listeners all of them? Or is it not really pertinent to this conversation? Yeah, I can. So the thing is, they all have like, they have Sanskrit names. So Yama, which is the attitude towards like, the outer body towards our environment? Neoma. So that is the attitudes towards ourselves. So like our inner environment, Asana, that's the physical practice pranayama. So that's our breath work, the Pratyahara. That's the sensory awareness. So otherwise known as kind of a withdrawal of the senses dharana that's the concentration or the mindfulness, Dayana. That's meditation. And then when we've worked through all seven of those limbs, we reached Samadhi, which is enlightenment, complete integration, right? That piece that everybody's looking for. Yeah, that that piece. Sounds fantastic. Right. That's, that's cool. So if you're someone that's trying to get started in this journey, and you realize that you're not going to your, you know, your local gym to get the Yoga Fix, you're even looking for, how should someone get started on this? So there are I mean, there are a ton of resources out there, which is really great. Especially, you know, for meditation, you've got the different apps. So you've got the comm app, there's headspace. My personal favorite is called Insight Timer. So it gives you the option to do like guided meditations through a variety of different teachers, myself included, and then it also just gives you the option of setting up a timer and then you know, I'll play it for 20 minutes the setup a bell every five minutes so that you know what's going on. And then you can kind of track your progress there. Same with Yoga itself. There's tons of resources, free yoga on YouTube, there's all kinds of apps and things like that. But it's, it's really about kind of finding a process that works for you. Same with like setting up a morning routine that works for you. Mindfulness is not one size fits all. And a lot of people, like I said, they'll get into it, and they feel like it's not working. And so then they, they throw the whole thing in the trash. So it's really finding something that works for you starting small starting with those five minutes, right, and maybe you love the yoga at your gym. And that's totally fine. Go do the yoga at your gym. And then you go home, and you sit for five minutes. Or maybe you sit in your car for five minutes, and you play a meditation, and you've integrated that whole moment. So in yoga classes, we have shavasana at the end, so a lot of people in this one always drives me crazy. When I'm teaching my classes, a lot of people get up and leave into vasana into vasana. Is that mindfulness? It's that integration. It's that meditation of like, thanking your body for everything that you've just done, and sitting in the stillness and just noticing what you're noticing. And so if you're finding that, you know, maybe the gym yoga isn't giving it to you, like, are you getting up in picking up your phone straightaway? As soon as you leave? Are you getting up in Shavasana? Right, like just noticing what you're noticing? What are the little habits that you can change to integrate that more and make that a more mindful process? As opposed to once again, just getting your workout going through the motions? Yeah, no, that's, that's 100%. I love that a lot. Man, that's, that's powerful. I'm not doing this at all. I really, I gotta get a little more disciplined here, I think. So. Let's try and do something like this. We usually don't do any sort of immediate actionable things. But I do kind of like this. Or maybe we should What is something that you could almost teach the listeners right now that they've they've never done this or they're spotty. They're not doing anything consistent? What's something that they could do in the next two minutes to improve their mindfulness right now? Absolutely. So one of the very first things that I always go for is box breath. So like I said, breath work is really important. And it helps you kind of calm yourself, get yourself ready for meditation. So box breathing, what you do is you inhale, for a count of four, let's say most likely, if you're just starting three, or four, so inhale for four, you hold that breath in for four, you exhale for a count of four, and then you hold your breath out for a count of four. So that's, that's our box, right? The four counts on each side. So if it's only three counts, three counts on each side. Do it for two minutes, you'll notice number one, it's uncomfortable, right? You're holding your breath, that weird intervals, you're not used to that, like I said, you're probably only breathing into your chest or the top half of your body most of the time. So it's uncomfortable. That's the first thing you'll notice, you'll notice your brain goes off, like, am I breathing? Am I getting enough air am I going to die, right, the brain is gonna go crazy, because your brain is gonna go into survival, it's gonna say, you're mixing it up, you're doing something different. I don't like this, I like to do the same exact thing. And then you fight through that you push through that, you know, maybe set a timer on your phone. So you're not checking your phone either. And you're just cycling through this breath. And you'll notice after like, three, four or five rounds, there's a stillness, there might be like a little buzzing in your brain almost or a tingling in your body, you'll notice sensations start to come up in your body. And that's what you tune into. And that is, like I said, that's the first thing I teach, because most of the time, we're just not breathing correctly. But it's a lot easier to find mindfulness when you're hyper focused on something. So you're hyper focused on this count to four. And like I said, the breath which is normally on autopilot, now you're hyper focused on like, actually filling it up and like, can I exhale like that? So I think that's a really good place for anybody to start just integrating. Yeah, no, I like that a lot. Does it matter if you breathe in or out through your nose or mouth or it's just about the breath, not about any sort of technique, I recommend just doing it through your nose. But some people, you know, if your mouth breather, if it's more comfortable, if you want to breathe in through your nose, exhale through your mouth, you can do all those things. It's really just going to be about keeping that consistency of the box of whatever counts you're able to do. Yeah, okay, that's, that's great advice. I encourage listeners to try that if you haven't yet. And like she said, It's uncomfortable. And you know, we just were talking before the show started and you only grow when you're uncomfortable. If you're comfortable, you're just gonna go stagnant, you're just gonna start to decay and die. Like you have to be uncomfortable to get where you want to be in life. There's no other way. So really love this advice. I like it a lot. I want to talk a little about your intro where you said you have gone holistic a little bit. So now you're helping people find the sunshine within what does that mean? Exactly. So that's a little it's a little gimmicky because I My business is called the sunshine practice. I do have a son on my arm. So that's where that came from, but the holistic side of it so you know, I've been teaching yoga for long Time and I found that I was having a lot of really great conversations with my students, but almost that it was getting outside of my scope, right? They were asking for advice, or they were disclosing a lot of things to me. And I felt like I wasn't, I wasn't qualified, I wasn't able to really do it justice, and I wanted to help people, that's always kind of been my mission is just helping people to feel better. So that's when I started my, my counseling program. And I found holistic psychology, which, once again, you know, the Western yoga versus the Eastern yoga Western medicine versus Eastern medicine. I am an A and girl Yes. And so I don't believe in one or the other, I believe this one and that one. So obviously, I was raised in the Western world, there's a lot of value in all of that. But as I began to explore all these Eastern traditions, I was like, Okay, wait, there's a lot of value in that too. And there's a reason why it's been around for so long. So the holistic side of it is really me combining everything that I've learned. So traditional psychotherapy, all of the techniques that come along with that. And then also, you know, integrating anything holistic anything meditation, yoga, acupuncture, right, breathwork, all of these things can be combined to really find when I say find the sunshine within, I just mean like, find that happiness, right? Find that that joy, and it doesn't, it doesn't always feel good. And I think that's a big misconception people have is that like, if I'm finding the sunshine within that means I'm just going to be like, happy all the time. And life is great. And you know, whatever. And that's just not true, right? Life is the ups and the downs. And what this whole practice and integration does is it allows you to be okay with that shuffle. Because you come back to like, it is what it is. And this too shall pass. And you know, in this moment, everything is okay. Yeah, I love that because of you. If you know someone that's always happy, it's probably a coping mechanism, because no one is always happy. No, like, I love what you said there, though, that it's not always going to feel good when you're doing this stuff. And I think so many people, just any, like, not just yoga, not just psychologists, anything, when they're hurting, they're trying to find a fix. And so that's why substance abuse, do you have a lot of people that because basically, if you're hurting, you want to find a way to not hurt. And so if it's not working, you feel like it's not working. But that's the point of this is to handle situations not to remove the bad situations altogether. But do you have a lot of people that are coming from this that are, you know, from doing alcohol too much, or drugs or any sort of just substance abuse scenario, that they're just trying to find escape? And this is helping them with that? Absolutely. So it's it's not even a substance abuse thing, but like an addiction thing, you can be addicted to anything, right? And addiction. What it does is it is it distracts you from everything else, because you're addicted to the way it makes you feel, which is why you know, I'm not trying to help you to feel happy all the time. I'm trying to get you to just notice what you're feeling and and work with that. So addiction is actually that's a big one for for my life and my work. So me I personally went through Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous when I was very young. So I was 22 years old. And I was told, you know, you should do this. And I was like, Are you kidding me? You know, I was like, I'm not addicted. That's ridiculous. And then you you go through this process, you go through the 12 steps, and you realize, okay, wow, I really was I was hyper focused on this one thing because it was making me feel better, or it was distracting me and, and I really was addicted to the highs and the Lowe's into what it was giving me. So that is something that's very near and dear to my heart is working with people who who don't realize they're addicted, right. It could be an addiction to your phone and addiction to checking Instagram and seeing the likes, right. It's an addiction to exercise right there can be you know, what are seemingly more more healthy addictions that are still a maladaptive coping mechanism that yeah, I love to work with people on Yeah, I love how you said that. To be honest. I appreciate your open openness and honesty there because you know, if you're addicted to alcohol, you know, everyone understands the 12 steps there. They know a if you're addicted to drugs, you gotta go into rehab, but sex addiction or coffee addiction, caffeinated hustle, I mean, it's a it's a gimmicky name, we enjoy your caffeine but you know, there's people out there that really would qualify it as an addiction or the phone. So talk about that a little more, basically, how does that fall into what you're doing? How do you get over any sort of addiction whether it's a sexual addiction or anything pretty much that is taking up too much of your time and you want to fix that you want to get the mindfulness down so you can handle that properly. How does this help that? So a lot of it I kind of divided into into three different sections. So the first thing that you want to do is identifying triggers and beliefs and the shame and the stigma and and all have the kind of the sticky stuff that's like the psychotherapy stuff, right? We need to dig through like how we even got here. To begin with, we need to understand, like, why our brain is telling us to do the things that we're doing that can be like chemically, or that can be limiting beliefs and the triggers and the trauma and all those things that go in. So that's kind of like the first chunk is right, really getting through, essentially, like trauma work. The second is, then once we've addressed that, once we've acknowledged that, then we move into the mindfulness, okay, so like, we know, this is our past, and this is how we used to do it, we know we want to do it differently, we don't really know how to do differently yet, like, we're ready to try, we're ready to be in the present moment, we're ready to like, move forward from here. So it's almost like a past present. And then we move into future, okay, in the future, this is going to be the actual actions that we are taking. So now we're like sitting down with goal setting. And we're getting really clear about like, where we're headed, how it's going to make us feel when we get there. And why this is going to feel so much better than where we have been. So that's, you know, the actual like morning routines and actions and books, and you're reading and you're journaling. And you're just like diving into all of this, like really sticky inner work to keep moving forward. Because I have like a really strong belief that it's not like, if you're not moving forward, you're not standing still, you're absolutely moving backwards. So it's just kind of that one step in front of the other one foot in front of the other to really, because it's constant, right? It's not like you do this work, and you're done. It's not like, like I said, I can't always turn off my brain completely. I've been doing this work for years and years and years, and I teach this work, but that doesn't mean that like, oh, done, I'm healed now I'm good. It's just this, ya know, it's just this constant shoveling. I always tell my kids that, you know, whatever you're doing here, if you're trying to improve, it's like you're on a bicycle. If you're not going forward, you're gonna fall off, you can't just stand still, because you're it doesn't work like that. If you're on the bike, you have to move in for it. So let's circle back just a little bit. What would you say to the people out there that have tried this? And they feel like it didn't work? So meditation or mindfulness in general, is is a tricky one. Because there is no it's not like physical activity is not working out. You don't look in the mirror and you're like, I look better now. Because I've meditated. So it's hard, right? And you're going to feel you're going to plateau, you're going to hit a lot of moments where you're like, I feel like this is not working. So one thing that I tell people to look for, is reactions. So let's say normally, you know, your kid does something that the loud noises, okay, that's one that like, sets a lot of people off like a kid drop something, and it makes a mess. And it makes a really loud noise. And their first reaction is like, explode yourself, right? You mimic that loud noise, you exploded them, whatever. What you can notice when you're mindful when you have the meditation is two things. So maybe you still do the explosion. But then after you're thinking about it, you're saying, Okay, I could have done that differently. Like, right, there's a little evaluation. Or maybe there was like, a split second before your own explosion, where you said, like, oh, maybe I shouldn't do it, or you just like, you notice that there's going to be more time in between your reactions. So a lot of times I talk about responding instead of reacting, because once again, when we're on that autopilot, we are reacting, right? We're just going from that subconscious brain. So if you can respond, if you can notice, there's like half a second, before you yell or before you do what you normally do. That's progress, right? And you just have to like, take it as a win. Stick that in your back pocket and keep going. And I know that's not as satisfying for a lot of people. But that's what we got to focus in on. It almost seems like for this entire process, it's like the goal is to get to a point that you can like, you can look at yourself, like out of body almost like you're like seeing it happen in real time. And it's like, oh, this person's like not reacting like a crazy person. Like, it's almost like you're watching someone else. Just do it right versus how you used to do it. That's, that's a very difficult thing to do. But it sounds like that's what you're trying to do. It is and actually that's a great way to put it. Because we talk a lot in the practice about like witnessing, so I am not my mind. I am not my body. I am not my thoughts. I am witnessing my mind play the games that it normally does on me I am witnessing, you know, my body begin to break down when I have these bad thoughts of Oh, I'm so tired. I'm witnessing my thoughts go into this spiral. And so like you said, it's hard, but if you can do it, and it's micro moments, if you can do it for 10 seconds before you do what you would normally do like that is success. That is progress. You're doing something right. Yeah, no, very well said. Well, Shelby, I really appreciate this. I think this has been phenomenal one let's let's close this out with one final question because you're very good at what you do. And there's gonna be a very wide range of people that are doing this either at the start, or they've been going for a while, you know, you kind of teach a course you kind of do some things like that, when does someone stop doing it themselves? And they feel like it's time to get a coach or something like that, at what point does the growth slow down to where they need outside help. So I personally believe that you can always have a coach, I have a coach, you know, I have I have business mentors, I have life coaches, you know, and then I have spiritual mentors. So I think there's always somebody that's one ladder rung above you that can teach you something that you don't know. So I say it's really never too early or too late to start in getting help from somebody else. And that can be once again, that can be free resources. There's all kinds of Instagram and Tiktok and Youtube accounts that are dedicated to just giving you that value. And then if you got if you got money, if you got skin in the game, you're you're more likely to be working harder and to be held more accountable for those actions. Yeah, very well said. Excellent. Well, so it's been phenomenal. I really appreciate you taking the time, where can our listeners find you online, get to, you know, reach out to if they want to have more questions or anything like that. The best way is right now to reach out to me. I've got a tic tock meditate with Shelby Tate. And I've got Instagram. Yeah, Instagram. I am Shelby Tate. So through both of those you can find like all my courses and my website and all that. But my website is a long URL through a platform nobody's probably heard of. So. Yeah, those are the best ways to get in touch with me. They're perfect. And I'll put those links in the show notes. So anyone that wants to find out more can do that. We're going to close it out with the last question we ask every guest What is your favorite caffeinated beverage to get through the day? I caffeine free tea. Caffeine Free tea the first person to finally say? Nobody I'd be like I don't drink coffee and like I have yet to find somebody. You are the first. Free tea. Sorry. Nothing wrong with that. I mean, you've conquered your addictions. I wish I wish I could say the same. I'm drinking my coffee right now. But that's okay. But shall be thanks for your time. It was a blast and we'll do against him. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the caffeinated hustle. Sponsored by caffeinated labs LLC. For more information for to connect with Ben. Check us out online at caffeinated labs.io. Or email us at support at caffeinated labs.io. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Or give us a follow on social media by checking the links in the description. We'll see you next time.